Episode 190: The teacher moved from Year 6 to Early Years and shares this…

Andy Psarianos

Hi, I'm Andy Psarianos.

Robin Potter

Hi, I'm Robin Potter.

Adam Gifford

Hi, I'm Adam Gifford.

Andy Psarianos

This is The School of School Podcast.

Welcome to The School of School Podcast.

Robin Potter

Welcome back to The School of School Podcast. I am here with the usual suspects, Andy and Adam. How are you two?

Andy Psarianos

Hello, hello. Yeah. Good.

Adam Gifford

Very well. Thank you, Robin. Very well. How are you?

Robin Potter

Yes. I'm terrific. We have a guest with us today. We've all been to her school, and we all think she's absolutely fantastic. I'll let her share a little bit more about herself.

Laurice Prempeh from Rosetta Primary. Hello, hello. Welcome.

Laurice Prempeh

Hi, everybody. Hi. Yes, I'm Laurice. I work at Rosetta in East London. I've been there for 13 years. Class teacher for 11, and then assistant head teacher for two years. Yeah, then I subject lead there, also.

Robin Potter

Yes. I know you love maths. That has been made clear, so you're the right person to talk to about that. But even more specifically, you love working with the early years. I thought, "Hey, why don't we talk a little bit about subject knowledge in the early years?" Maybe you can guide some people who are struggling with that.

Laurice Prempeh

My first six years of teaching was Key Stage 2. I loved it, absolutely loved Key Stage 2. Then I realised that I needed to push myself a little bit, I needed to stretch myself a little bit, and I've just become a subject lead. I spoke to my head teacher and I said, "What do you think about me going to reception?" She thought I was absolutely crazy, because I was going from year six to reception.

It was the scariest thing I've ever done, but the best thing I've ever done. I felt like I was a new teacher again. I felt like I was learning every day just how to be, because they're incredible down there but they're very different to year six children. The maths down there, it gave me so much joy. It was teaching in such a different way to the way that I was used to teaching. I was used to correcting misconceptions maybe, and building on existing knowledge. That's what I was really doing at, that's what I felt like I was really in the pocket.

Going into early years and being able to start from the beginning, and really develop foundations, and really create what my colleagues would be building on was so exciting for me. It was hard. It was really, really hard. But it was the most exciting thing I'd done in a really long time.

Now, as a subject lead and being a little bit more experienced, having a bit more understanding of Key Stage 1 and early years, I'm really passionate now about making sure that all of my early years and Key Stage 1 practitioners have a really deep understanding of what our children need to know, and how to do the best to make sure that they are building that really strong foundation. And that nothing is surface-level. We use that amount of time we have with them to make sure they have really sold foundations.

Adam Gifford

You've had a chance to reflect on that pretty substantial move. Did you find yourself after you'd taught for a bit, because I'd imagine the first thing's just adjust to teaching in the early years, but did you find yourself with some things made sense when you say, say difficulties in mathematics in year six? Did you start to go, "Ah, okay, I can see the link here, and I can see where it's important in practising potentially what was missing?"

Laurice Prempeh

Absolutely. Number, hugely. Composition of number. Which is something that, prior to moving to the younger side of the school, I didn't really think about. When children couldn't ... The moment they had to partition a number, and break apart a number in order to add or to subtract, and children were having a block. As a Key Stage 2 teacher, I struggled to understand what they were missing. Moving to early years, and seeing that composition of number wasn't being secured before the children maybe moved onto addition or subtraction made it really, really clear to me what needed to be secured.

Other areas like spacial reasoning, and seeing that children who couldn't understand the language of parts and wholes. And children who couldn't understand anything to do with geometrical patterns. I could really see what they'd maybe missed, or what had maybe been skimmed over, or what aspect hadn't been secured in early years had caused those stronger misconceptions and those stronger blocks in their learning later on.

Andy Psarianos

Maybe talk a little bit about that idea of composition of numbers. We go over these technical terms very quickly sometimes, but we forget some of the people here might not know what we're talking about.

Laurice Prempeh

Of course, yes. When I think about the composition of number, I think the previous early learning goal was understanding number bonds to 10. I think that was misunderstood in itself. It was teachers would teach children number bonds just to the number 10. But children need to have that understanding of all the number bonds up to 10. So knowing that five is made up of three and two, and also two and three, and four and one, and five and zero. If children can do that, the moment they're moving to year one and two and they have to add numbers, such as seven and six, they can see that six is made up of three and three, therefore they can make 10, and they have three more. That doesn't come to a child unless they have a really solid understanding of the composition of those numbers. That has to be taught.

Again, going from year six to reception, me realising that I have to teach them this composition of number, and I have to make it applicable to a five-year-old. To the attention span of a five-year-old. To the learning style of a five-year-old. That was really novel to me. It was such an exciting experience and exciting thing for me to be a part of.

Yeah. When I refer to composition of number, I'm just meaning the number bond, and the way that the numbers are made up. Obviously, the fact that numbers are not just made up of two parts. Numbers can be made up of three parts. Just the children understanding the different ways that the numbers are made up.

Andy Psarianos

That's an interesting one. I'll pick up on what you said. You said something which, for some people, they may not have caught onto. But you said number bonds of five, like three and two, and then you said two and three. People would say, "Well, that's the same thing." That's an interesting thing because it could be the same thing, but it's not necessarily the same thing. Math is always applied to ...

Here's a problem that we have in general with mathematics, is that we jump into this really abstract notation of mathematics and think that that's what we're talking about. But usually, when you're talking about mathematics, you're talking about it in relation to something that's real. Mathematics is a tool that we use to do things with real stuff. Three green apples and two red apples make five apples, but they're not the same thing as two green apples and three red apples. That's a concept that you have to learn very young. That yes, they both add up to five apples, but it's a different composition. Or, three boys and two girls, and two girls and three boys. That's not the same thing, but they're both five children.

You get into this notion of what's a set, and what can you include in a set. Anyway, I don't want to get too far into it. But all those things are learned in an intuitive way before children really, certainly before they're in year two. Hopefully, before they're in year one. Because then, you can move. But if you're stuck on that, those problems show up later on in other places.

Laurice Prempeh

I completely agree. I think when the older children that I was so comfortable working with really struggled with word problems, and really struggled with understanding what they needed to be able to extrapolate and what was information that was irrelevant, it came from that fixed understanding that you alluded to there. In terms of what does each part of that problem refer to, in order for them to understand which part of that problem was relevant.

I think what you said at the end there, Andy, we label things for children. But they know it. If we had three girls and two boys, and then two girls and three boys, they'd be able to see the difference very, very easily. But until we label it and we make it something that they can understand and hold onto, and we turn it into that abstract math by making those links, if we don't do that it becomes lost. Then they struggle when it comes to problem solving.

But in the early years, what early years practitioners are very, very good at, and I'm absolutely in awe of them, and I tried my best to emulate them when I was in the early years, was that labelling. That labelling of the patterns that children naturally see, and just helping the children to make sense of that in a way that is generalised, and then they can use it moving forward. Then they start problem solving in a more fixed way in the national curriculum in year one.

Andy Psarianos

When you were teaching year six, by year six, this is not normally something that you're dealing with on a day-to-day basis. But did you know these things when you went into reception? Or was it something that you discovered when you entered in there? That, "Oh my goodness, there's a lot to numbers to 10 than I ever imagined." Was that a new discovery for you, or was that something that you already intrinsically knew or learned somewhere else?

Laurice Prempeh

When I decided to go into reception, I already had two sons. One was three, and one was seven. As a parent, I knew the nuances. As an educator, not so much. As a new subject leader, I was educating myself. I work alongside the Maths Club as well, and I'd done a lot of work on early years, but I didn't have any firsthand experience apart from my own two children. Who were my own little test dummies, bless them. But as an educator, no firsthand experience.

It was very, very surprising to me. I did have to do a lot of self-study. I had to do a lot of speaking to colleagues. I had to really educate myself. Which felt very new to me, because for six years, I'd been really comfortable. It was interesting and it was scary, but it was the best thing that I had ever done.

But no, I had no idea what I was going into, Andy.

Andy Psarianos

Did it make you a better Key Stage 2 teacher?

Laurice Prempeh

Absolutely.

Andy Psarianos

Having spent that time with the really young children? In what way?

Laurice Prempeh

People look at me and they say, "I don't care what you say, I'm not going to reception," because reception's scary to some people, just like year six is scary for some people.

Andy Psarianos

It's terrifying.

Laurice Prempeh

They think I'm trying to convince them. I absolutely think it made me better as both a teacher, and definitely as a subject leader, because I had a wider understanding. When I speak to all of my teachers now, my early years teachers, I can see they're not glazing over. They're paying attention to what I have to say because they know that I understand it and I get it. When I plan professional development, I am thinking about my reception teachers. Whereas before, it was an unknown to me because they are so different to the national curriculum teachers.

It made me better as a teacher because, as we mentioned a little bit before, I now have an understanding. I can see quite quickly what part of that foundational learning a child doesn't have secure. Whereas before, it would be a lot of me testing misconceptions, and trying to figure it out. Maybe looking at year five curriculum content, and trying to look that way. I can now see really, really easily which of those aspects of early learning is missing with a child. I feel so fortunate that I've had that experience in the early years to help strengthen my teaching across the rest of the school.

Andy Psarianos

I could only imagine that it would significantly increase your diagnostic too, when you run into a child that's struggling with something, because you can understand what are all the building blocks that led up. Once you have that lens where you've seen, like you have, right through from reception to year six, you've seen all the different stages of learning.

When you run into someone, let's say they're have a problem with something, let's just say it's column addition or something. Hopefully not in year six, but somewhere in the middle of their primary school education. You can decompose all the bits, the components that are necessary to get it, and then maybe identify where the problem is. While I think often, what happens if you don't have that lens is that you want to help, and you want to support and scaffold them, but you don't really know what to do because you can't really identify what the problem is. It's so critical.

It's like you said, the composition of numbers is just one element, but it's a really critical one. Place value's another one. There's all these different things. If you understand how children learn and where they start from, you can identify gaps a lot better. I think that's critical.

Do you think it's important for teachers in their career to have that opportunity to teach at different levels?

Laurice Prempeh

I always say to teachers when I talk about the way that I want maths lessons to run in my whole school, I always say that early years do this really naturally. They follow that CPA process without even thinking. That's the early years way of doing things. I always do say I have so much respect for the way that the early years teachers teach.

When you ask do I think all teachers should have that scope, I think it would be really beneficial for all teachers, but I also know that it's not likely. As much as I think it would be beneficial, because of teachers have strong feelings about either end of primary school. So as much as I think it would be beneficial, and I think there definitely would be benefits ... The route I've taken, because I know that some teachers would have a complete meltdown if we suggested either year six or reception to them.

The diagnostic element that you spoke about there, what I do sometimes in inset is I will give a problem to teachers, and we'll pick apart all of the things a child needs to be able to do, all of the things they need to be able to have a grasp of in order to attempt a problem. I feel like that's an activity that appeals to teachers across the school because my early years teachers can say, "Oh, okay. When we're doing this, this is really going to prepare them for problem solving like that." Then the teachers from the older year groups can pick apart all of the elements a child needs to have secure, and be able to check back on what the elements are.

Whenever you mention that I can look at a child and see really easily maybe what they're missing, I'm trying to develop that with my teachers as well through delivering professional development that's purposeful for them.

Robin Potter

We get feedback a lot from other teachers who are doing early years about language and vocabulary, and the challenges of not being able to read in the early years. How do you overcome that? And how do you overcome that with your teachers?

Laurice Prempeh

I use a lot of colour. Just for example, think about about hot pot hole. Every time I refer to a pot, I'll do it in a colour, and every time I refer to a hole, I'll do it in a colour. The children are not reading necessarily those words, but because they're hearing my language being used so often, and they're associating my language with those colours, they then are making those associations.

Also, using my voice. Teachers have to realise when you have children who don't have the ability to read, they can't read your sentences, so the teachers become those human sentences. Your sentences then need to be somewhat shorter, maybe. They're not going to be as extensive as they might be higher up the school. But they need to be the sort of sentences ... For example, very similar stems are used in number bonds, addition, and subtraction. That's a good two months, two, three months that the same sort of sentences are being used with the younger children. Using that adult, and really thinking, being mindful of sort of sentences that you're using with the younger children.

And not being afraid of it. A lot of young children that come in, they speak, and just them speaking makes us smile because they don't say anything. They don't form the words exactly the way they're supposed to be. So there's that absolute cute element. But not being afraid to let the children attempt the words that you're trying to say, because that in itself is development. Just not being afraid of using the word representation. Not being afraid of using the word subitizing when we're speaking to our younger children. And knowing that it might not sound perfect when they say it back to us, but knowing that that child is internalising that language, and they are using the language in the best way that they can.

I would say it's just being really resilient, and not being afraid to use those words, and being human.

Adam Gifford

Depending on when this goes out, it may be that we've gone past the first day of a new reception teacher coming into that provision. When you reflect back on, I don't know, the first day that you've described is pretty scary so I imagine that's etched in your memory. What are some of the things that you think, "All right, here are the key takeaways for me? If I could talk to past Laurice going into it, here's my top tips for coming into the early years provision?"

Laurice Prempeh

That's a great question. I'm just going to think about the maths, because the other advice, I could go on all night and you don't want that. I'll just think about the maths advice.

In terms of maths, I would say, something that I'd like to say now is to think about a typical day for a reception child, and think about all of the different opportunities you have to develop their number awareness and their pattern spotting. Think about all of the different opportunities. Think about the number of times that we can talk, we can speak mathematically to that child. The list is absolutely endless. They don't all have to be recorded, and they're not all things that we have to share and report back. But I say, as an adult, just think about all of the different opportunities that we have. It isn't always snack time, because everybody always says snack time. Thinking about all of the different opportunities.

I think if we think like that as adults, it becomes so part-and-parcel of the things that we do. As an early years teacher, there are so many things that we have to think about. There are all of those areas of learning. I remember feeling really overwhelmed. But because maths is such a real life subject, it's happening all of the time, all around them. I would say to myself, "Just think about all of those different opportunities, and just make sure you are having those conversations at the times where it's so relevant and so important for the children." Because I probably missed doing that for a few weeks, because I was in shock.

Adam Gifford

What about a general one? What about something that not math specific? But again, any advice that will help is always encouraged.

Laurice Prempeh

Enjoy getting to know your children. I think there's nothing more amazing than working with children that are that young, and that imaginative, and that creative. I think the national curriculum looks so different to the early learning goals. So much of it is understanding and knowing that child. To me, that gets a little bit lost in the national curriculum. The fact that one of the early learning goals is speaking to me is amazing, because we have to speak to the children. We're encouraged to do that in the early years, so just enjoy getting to know them.

Slight side note. My reception class that I had are about to go into year six. For me, seeing them, knowing that this time next year they're leaving, it completely chokes me up. But I remember them. I remember things they said to me in reception. I remember how well I knew them, and how well I got to know them. That's completely priceless. Just enjoy getting to know your children in early years.

Andy Psarianos

Thank you for joining us on The School of School Podcast.