Episode 210: Sport, Art and Music — Do we need to teach more joy?

So know we've talked about favourite subjects before, but I think we should talk about sports and music, little athletics and creativity and art in general, sure.

Yeah, what about and art, art in general too, art as well, right? All those like things that we tend to sacrifice.

and importance of that. I think we've talked about sports before because there seems to be a different kind of dynamic culturally or at least, you know, when we were talking England versus say Canada, it's very important to Canadians to have sports in schools. And I don't know if that's the same in England, but Adam, you have any comment on that?

Yeah, I think it is, but there's a difference and I think maybe New Zealand might be like Canada. I know that when we often you would see the sort of school field at different times of the day, classes going out, not because they had a PE session, because they'd done what they needed to that day. And then there was some sport that being played because it was like get out of the classroom and do that. And that was totally accepted. And I remember doing it when I first arrived in the UK.

There was two aspects of it. One, I got them out in bare feet. New Zealand, everyone wears bare feet, right? So that was just normal. So that was the part that I was asking children to jump off a cliff, which I wasn't. And the second thing was, I was being questioned because it was like, that wasn't your PE session.

And I said, yeah, I know, but we'd done what we needed to do. And so we were going out and we were playing a game. That's what we were doing, because that was a good thing to do for our class. That was the decision that I made.

but I felt very, very alienated because I did that. So I think there is a difference, Rob, and I think that I would say that pretty much 100 % of anyone in education in the UK would say sports are really important. It's really important in school, but it's quite structured. I think it's a bit more structured. I think that's what I found.

It's not used as a reward per se. I recall that too, that if you finished all your work that the teacher would promise that, okay, we get to go outside now and run around and do things.

or even just as a balancer, in New Zealand, like we just used it as, it wasn't even like the, and I'm not suggesting that that's what you say, that it was like, if we finish this, we can do this. It was kind of like, you've just been working really hard. You've just been sitting at your desk. We need some fresh air. We need some physical activity.

We need a bit of this and it's gonna be good for us generally, cause it's team sports. So it's good for the dynamic of the class. And then we're gonna do something else. It was just like a normal part of learning. don't know.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah, no.

So what is the response, people who look at you and say, what what in God's name is Adam doing with his class? What are they thinking, what do they think is wrong with what you're doing?

I think the worry was is that, you know, like I'm not taking the study seriously, or that it might have an impact on on reading or writing or mathematics, or something like that.

How have you got time to do these things? And so I think it's that it's that, yeah, it's that, you know, how can it's, it's the value of it. It was the value of doing something like that wasn't seen as as high as

I don't know if I'd have kept them in the room for example for 20 minutes and did silent reading that would have been seen as a higher value than me making the decision that I did.

It's not in the curriculum or whatever.

Yeah. Yeah. And so what about, okay, and then what about on the art side of things? Do you think that that's more appreciated? So you kept them in, but they got to work on their art project for 30 minutes, as opposed to running around outside burning off some energy.

I think that largely. Institutionally, right? Like, like step back away from the individual school per minute or the individual teacher. Just, you know, at the highest level of governments or whoever is in charge of educating children, right? Those things are all seen a little bit kind of as fluffy things, right? That's not got nothing to do with, with school. Really. Like we kind of do it to appease people, you know?

Yeah, and yet it has so much to do with school and life, you know? I mean, where would we be without our illustrators right now?

Any of those things but but also just like what about joy right? What about talking about joy? Like is that an important thing for people to learn? You know and you know and maybe they could be joyful when they're running around in the field barefoot, you know trying to catch each other or whatever it is.

They're doing right like maybe that can be a joyful experience Maybe that's something that schools should be kind of thinking about like or but maybe that joyful experience for another child will be winning because they're the fastest, you know? But maybe that's all.

There is the only thing that's going bring them joy in school because maybe academically they're really strong, you know, so maybe there's something in that for them, right? And maybe that's important or, or maybe there's a child who's, who's very, very, very, introverted and loves to spend large amounts of times making things, right?

Making creative things, you know, maybe that's music and maybe it's, it's, it's painting. Maybe it's something else or maybe it's even writing, right? Like is that,

Is that is should they have those opportunities to feel joyful at school as well, right? And and do something that that that they're good at and we don't We don't maybe don't value that because I think joy is really the thing that I would all wrap all those things under us as joy, right?

I I was just going say, I think the other thing too, when I look at adults and I've seen some reactions, say for example, to art with some really intelligent, really confident people, where if I said to them, have you been to an art gallery?

They feel almost intimidated by art because, I don't know how they behave. I don't know how to react with this. Or if you gave them a musical instrument that would put like the fear of God into them.

And I think that these things, like one of the things that I found in school that was something that you try to combat, it's, you know, I struggle with it, is there's a discipline to each of these elements, right? So it's a learned discipline, but if you go into it concerned, like really anxious about, I'm gonna get this wrong, then the subject itself takes on this sort of terrifying nature.

And I remember, and we've done a top tips episode, I should have said this one as well, an artist friend of mine, when I asked, how do I get, because the children will be presented with this beautiful piece of white cartridge paper that every child had won for the whole year. This was your, this was the piece. And of course you approach this white piece of paper terrified, know, no freedom in what you're doing. And he sort of said to me, no, get them to paint on newspaper for at least a couple of months.

So they get so used to painting on something that they're not precious about that when it comes time to do it, they're free. They'll just express themselves. So there's no intimidating factor to it. know, like you take, remove that.

And I think that's the thing is that in schools, because people have quite strong opinions about if they see, you a musician? God, no, no, absolutely not. No, no, no, don't give me any, no. What about Narthas? Do you want to draw? Here's a piece of white paper and a pencil. No, get it away from me. Get it away from me. That is, no.

There's quite a visceral feeling towards some of the creative subjects. And I would argue, where does that start? And most of these things, most of these attitudes towards things happens when we're at school. And I think we like you're saying about the joy or just the freedom to explore and to, you know,

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And like music could be something as simple as saying, hey, kids, you know, here's a piano, right? Like, all right, I want you guys to come up with a pattern. No rules, but you can only use the black keys. I can't use any of the white keys on piano. Off you go. Right. You know, but it's got to be a pattern. You got to be able to repeat it. Right.

Boom. That's math, that's music, that's... it's fun. It's enjoyable. It can be loud, it can be quiet. Make as much noise as you want.

Enjoyable, yeah, was gonna say, yeah, yeah.

yeah.

And there's no right and wrong too, right? So if you have to do, you know, bar bar black sheep, you know when you get it wrong, so does the rest of the class. know, because everyone knows exactly, exactly, but that's what saying.

Yeah, but it doesn't have to be anything though, right? This isn't, you could come up with a pattern that all of you recognize, but what about if you just invent your own, right? And it doesn't...

That's his point.

Yeah, that's what Adam's saying. It's just freedom.

Totally. But that's the nice thing about what you've given as an example is that idea around there's no right and wrong and actually having that joy. And for me, probably equally as important is not being intimidated by it. Having it accessible to you without a second's thought. Yeah, of course I'll pick up a guitar and have a strum. Yeah, I can't play, but I'll have a go and why not? Nothing terrible is going to happen.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right.

That's right, that's right. And really, in this day and age when there is so much talk about mental health and anxiety, children feeling stressed and anxious in the classroom, mean, the things that we're talking about, and Andy, you summed it up as joy, but these are all things that...

that should relieve some of that. Yes, absolutely.

we could all do with more of. And if I think, I think that if, if all it does is if all it does is say to a kid, I want to go to school because I'm going to feel some joy there, you know, then what's, what's the harm of that? Right. Yeah. What's, what's bad about that? What's bad about that?

What's wrong with that?

Totally. I think too, think the other thing for me is that if they go into it, even if they're not, even if for whatever reason they don't gravitate towards it something like that, it's not cut off for a lifetime.

And I think that there's, you know, like I'm sure there's plenty of adults that have already firmly decided I will never pick up a paintbrush. I will never pick up a music instrument because it's not me. It's not, it's not what I do. It's not what I'm about. And I'm too, I wouldn't even consider doing it. And I think that it,

As long as that part of it that, I had a go, it was enjoyable, there was no, I don't feel like it didn't define me, then I think there's always that opportunity later in life that you go, well, I'll just have a go at this. Yeah, I might do this, I might do that. And not even think twice about it because of being defined as someone that can or can't do this. You know? And yeah, I think there's lots and lots of cases where people have done something later in life. And I don't mean they have to become successful.

But they have done it, and I've given it a go.

But what is success though? What is success if it's not joy, right? If we can't teach people how to be joyful, like why does everybody want to get what they want to get? They want to get it because they think it's going to make them joyful or happy maybe, you know? It's like I need to be successful because I will feel...joy or I need to be blah blah blah, I need to marry this person because it will bring me joy or I need to do whatever it is in life.

I want this job because it can bring me joy. Right. How about let's show people how to be joyful. Right. And then maybe maybe something good will come of that in their lives. Right.

Maybe they'll realize that, Hey, that like, it's always just around the corner. Like just tinkering on the black keys of a piano could bring me joy or just painting with my finger. Even I'm not going to make anything. I'm not going to try to make that. Right. You might look at that and go, Oh, that's horrible. don't, you know, someone else to think is great, but whatever, but it's not about the thing. It's about the process. Right. It's like, you could make something really ugly and find tremendous joy in it.

You know, whether it's musical or, or, or. like let's just find some joy in our lives. Maybe let's teach children a little bit of that. Maybe that's why we do it.

Joyfulness 101. Let's do it.