Episode 221: Do I HAVE to go out at playtime? Amazing maths attitudes!

Andy Psarianos

Welcome back everyone, welcome back to another exciting episode of the School of School Podcast.

Robin Potter

Let's try that again

Andy Psarianos

I'm not going to try that again, I liked the way I did that. Clearly Robin's here and Adam's here as well. Say Hi Adam.

Adam Gifford

How are doing Andy? How you doing Robin?

Robin Potter

Very well, thank you.

Andy Psarianos

Got an, uh, we got a wonderful guest today, Matt Ashby from Aragon private school in, in Morton in London, uh, great school, uh, amazing school actually. Been working with, with us, uh, I've been working with them for, for 10 years directly and indirectly. And, you know, it's just, I'm just so happy Matt's here. So Matt today, what are we talking about?

Matt Ashby

Then we're to be looking about children's attitudes and how it's changed, how much their problem has affected children's attitudes towards mathematics.

Andy Psarianos

Fantastic. So Matt before we jump in too much why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and your background and your background of your school.

Matt Ashby

So I've been teaching for 12 years now and I've been using Maths No Problem for the last 10 years. As you say, we're a school just on the outskirts of London. We're a three form, entry school and we have between 630 and 640 pupils within our school.

Andy Psarianos

Fantastic. So let's talk about children's attitudes towards mathematics. So what's your experience with the children in your school? Maybe tell us like, you know, the journey that you've been through and some of that.

Matt Ashby

Yeah, so I think basically before using Maths No Problem, I think we saw lots of children who saw mathematics as a chore. We saw mathematics that wasn't that enjoyable. And I think now that we're using it, it's a subject that children didn't tend to enjoy and would disengage from. But now we're using Maths No Problem. It's a subject that children absolutely thrive in. love.

We did a little bit of pupil voice with some of the children just a few months ago. And I said to the children, right, if you've got mathematics, where would you place that? it's, think, would it go into your top three subjects? And 50% of the children said that math should be in their top three subjects of their learning. And I think that for me speaks volumes. We're going up against other subjects like PE. We're going up against other subjects like art, the creative, the music subjects. And I think.

Children's attitudes towards maths has just changed because they enjoy it now and I think that's solely down to input from the scheme and how our staff have adapted and used the resources for it.

Robin Potter

And I would guess their success. I mean, they're seeing, you know, well, just they're seeing the results. seeing their, that their hard work's paid off, I guess. I don't even know if they would consider it hard work. Maybe they would just consider it joyful. You know, their happy place. I don't know. Do you think, do you think in general, your students have a different attitude about math now than they did before?

Matt Ashby

Yeah, and the success of our school as well.

yeah, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. like you said, they do, they just enjoy it. And I think like we've spoken about previously, because they get the chance to do things using the CPA approach, they get to be able to explore the maths in many different ways. I think it's just helped them and they enjoy the challenge a lot as well.

The maths teaser books, we purchased the maths teaser books that Master Problem use and I've got one boy in my class at the moment and as soon as he sees me delve for the book, like, he just loves the idea of the challenge that maths no problem provides. And I think that's another thing that I've really, really enjoyed seeing is those children who are really good mathematicians, they're being able to be challenged.

And I feel like beforehand, I don't think they was challenged as much when we was using, obviously I say a scheme, it was a sort of mixed bag of different resources but they just really love the fact that the challenges, they love the little characters at the side of the questions asking, can you solve this in three different ways?

Why do you agree with your character of Ruby? Why and why not? And they've been able to journal their ideas, but the mass teaser books, I think are phenomenal in terms of allowing children to basically be stretched and challenged really, really, really, really deeply.

I had one child the other day he was looking at and he was working on it. said, do I have to go out of playtime? And I said, I said, we can stay for a little bit. I said, I need to have my break as well. But I said, but this is the engagement levels we're getting from the children because they're, great mathematicians and they want to be challenged. And the scheme and the teaser books is providing that challenge for them.

Andy Psarianos

That's so that's that's just so lovely to hear.

Adam Gifford

It's wonderful. do you know, what I'm thinking about, Matt, now fast forward another 10 years and I'm not wishing anyone's lives away, but what a difference I think it's going to make. Like, I don't know if we ever asked the question of our teachers, what was your attitude towards math when you were at school? But can you imagine having this group of people, because one of the things we hear in training a lot is, wish I was taught like this. I didn't like mathematics. I didn't think I could.

Imagine these people, I can't wait for them to come into the workforce for teaching as well. Because I know we've made an adjustment, so we have that.

But to come in, can you imagine coming in and en masse, having this attitude towards maths, which I feel would be fundamentally different to the majority of people that come in. Certainly when I learned to train, I know how you feel about that, but I find that hugely exciting for the future.

That this attitude that's been installed puts the subject in such good stead for the future if we've got these ambassadors effectively because of the work that you do.

Matt Ashby

Yeah, I think it's telling even at parents evening when we speak to some of the parents and we say to, we're moving on to fractions and they sort of like, recoil into themselves because I think their own experiences of the subject and what I'm really pleased and I think what Master of Problems done really, really well is those sort of insecurities from the parents have not been put onto the children because their children obviously respect their parents so much they could say, this, don't like fractions.

They don't like maths, but because they're able to use all of the resources available to them and have such a good scheme that they're not going with their parents point of view.

They're going with what they're learning in front of them. And it is changing those attitudes of society, hopefully, going, leading forward.

Robin Potter

So do you have any specific stories that you can think of? You've already shared with the math teasers, you know, with that one boy, but are there other examples of your students really just having or demonstrating something in the classroom that just showed their love for maths?

Matt Ashby

Yeah, I think another story that we had, had a child in my class, this was a couple of years ago now, and they was new to the class. And obviously when you get a report on the child when they move school, so they come from a different school, and they said on the reports, obviously, really below in maths, not doing well in what they need to do, below the expected level. So we sat down and I spoke to the child when they arrived, and I said, so what is it that you don't like about maths?

And I was just like, don't know, just, I'm not good at it. I'm not great. And it was just a sort of defeatist attitude before they sort of even set foot into the maths classroom. And then I think after using maths, problem.

Obviously it took a little bit of time to adjust to it, but after sort of like the second and third week, I saw the child, was sort of like growing in confidence. My hand was getting put up and, we had a really, really good relationship where I could sort of be jokey with him. And I'd go past, said, I saw your hand going up quite a few times there. do you like maths?

And he just looked at me and he sort of smiled. And we just had that moment where I could see the impact of what it was. And then it went from strength to strength. And the child who at the beginning wasn't at the expected level by the he got in part went on to year 6, managed to get the expected level and was really, really close to greater depth level. So I think that's another success story I've seen where they've gone from a different school where they haven't had the experience of master problem and then what they've used now.

Andy Psarianos

That's the stuff that, you know, I mean, those kinds of stories are what make me get up every morning and, you know, just keep going to work, right? Because that's every single one of us. I mean, that's what we're in this for, right? It's just, you know.

It's so important. And the other thing too, I think it's something we don't talk about enough is what about for the teachers themselves? mean, what a shift, right? When you have a willing participation from the classroom, it's not like, no, we're doing fractions and everyone sort of gets grumpy and sad and stressed, stressed, children feel anxiety too, right? We forget that.

Matt Ashby

Yeah. Yeah. And I think also as well, I we've even implemented maths, problem now into other subjects, like curriculum areas. So we all start now with the learning journey of what we're going to do. We start our subjects, our science subjects with a question, like similar to an Explore. We then will then work for it and we build up the learning in small steps. And I know it sounds simple that of course you'd build the learning in small steps, but until you actually see how it works in our maths lessons it's allowed staff to then start applying. Let's go, right. I can see how you're using it.

I'm now going to try and apply that to my R relearning. And then it's just allowed us to basically build that into other areas of our curriculum as well. I've never seen so many STEM sentences in like an oracy part of my, of English lessons. And, but yeah, it's really, really helping.

Andy Psarianos

That's great. That's great.

Robin Potter

Well, that's a feel good story. There you have it. It speaks truths just listening to what our teachers have to tell us. So Matt, thank you so much for being here today and for sharing Aragon's journey with us. it's just, you just made us feel good. So thanks so much. It's good to know it's working.

Matt Ashby

You're welcome. Thanks for all your help as well.