Episode 197: What is the value of an open day?

Welcome back. It's another School of School episode. Two thirds of the team here. But it's the Dream Team two thirds. We're allowed to say that in Andy's absence, but I'm sure when he's back, it's the full three thirds Dream Team. But Robin, are you? I want to say you're this morning. It's me this afternoon. You're of course in Canada. Here am I in the UK. You good?

Woo! Hahaha!

That's right. I am very good. Thanks. My day has just begun and look at us already having a conversation. What are we going to talk about today, Adam?

Well, I think we've sort of discussed it. We were recording podcasts and also discussing sort of off-year school visits that happened. We've had quite a lot on, you know, as we approach the end of the year and we've had sort this amazing community event that took place and so a chance to talk to colleagues and yeah, we just, just...

wonderful speakers, workshops, those sorts of things. we're also in and around the same time as we went into a number of schools. And I think that, you know, in another podcast, we're just discussing about those takeaways from the schools. But it also made me think of a couple of things. The fact that these schools often offer open days and what that means. But also,

I think reflecting on sort of learning behaviours that we might just think are the norm, but I'm not convinced that they are. And I think that just, again, just sharing some of the observations that it seemed to me and suggested very strongly to me that this was really good practice and gave the children a really good chance to understand their maths really well.

Perhaps you can set the scene, Robin. I don't want to put you on the spot, but just to say, it's just some of the things that you observed in the classroom. And then we can put it back to how that relates to open days and what those mean and how they could be really useful for people who are either thinking about the program or maybe already have it.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think you're right though. I mean, we've been fortunate because the schools we tend to visit tend to be quite exceptional. And not always, mean, but they're, and we are seeing them probably in a little bit of a, I don't want to say staged environment, but the fact is, and we talked about this before, when we come to the school, it's kind of like this,

The math still problem people are here. Put on your best face for this. Although we're just stepping into the classroom, many of these schools have had people come in before and observe, and they are always showing us their best, I would say. They like to show their best. And so...

I still think we get the opportunity of a real lesson and we get the opportunity to observe real behaviour. The kids may be on a little bit better behaviour when we're there, but you know, we see how they're interacting. And we've talked about this too, is this culture of a classroom.

You know, you can go to four year, four year, four classes at the same school and each has their micro culture in each of those classrooms. So you're observing the same lesson, but taught by a different teacher with a different, slightly different spin.

Yeah.

on the material. And the class is reacting differently or responding differently to the teacher. So what does that all mean for an open day? Okay, so now let's moving it to an open day. It's the same kind of format. know, sometimes an open day involves a specific type of observation. So maybe it's an observation on a particular...

piece of a particular year where you're learning foundations, you know, want to observe a class using foundations the early years. The nice thing about an open day is you have the opportunity to see another school in action, you have an opportunity to observe their classes and what they're doing, and you have an opportunity to ask questions and

get more information from the school. So what does it all mean? I mean, I just think open days are of such value.

They're like going to what we would do, observing at a school. It's a full-on day of getting to be kind of that fly on the wall and taking in information. And some schools do it really well, really well.

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, and I think the other thing too that I'm always mindful of is that you're right. I mean, when there's visitors or something's happening or there's someone outside of, yeah, of course, of course, people pull up their socks a wee bit more and they do whatever they do. But the wonderful thing that I've always experienced is that..

Children get pretty honest pretty quick, eh? Like you can see through it. I've had hilarious conversations before and it's like, how come you're doing this? I said, because you're here. all right, do want to show me what you normally do? Yeah, okay, normally I do this. And you go, okay. Now, I'm not saying that's in the context of an open day or our school visits, but the one thing that I think becomes very obvious very quick is how children, if you're there and you're sort of, you you're there for a while and you're looking at their learning,

is just how quickly they will just be them, because that's what they know, right? So it's kind of like, what's in it for them to put up some act for ages? So it doesn't usually happen. Like children usually just go back to default setting pretty quick. The teacher might be a bit nervous and all those sorts of things, so it might be a wee bit different. But I think that one of the things that I observed across that you can't really...

Right.

You can't put on a show for a day, right? And some of the observations that I made across the schools that we went to, across all classrooms, there's certain learning behaviours that I just think are incredibly powerful and they need to be part of the culture. And I know that that's a word, know, culture of schools that you've used before and we've used before. But things like children talking to each other.

You know, and it seems so small. It just seems like, of course children talk to each other, but it's actually really interesting. There have been plenty of schools where the children didn't necessarily talk to each other. In fact, the common approach is I need to ask for permission first. And usually what that looks like in a class is I put my hand up. And effectively what we're doing when we put our hand up is saying, I am asking for permission to speak. Now know people won't phrase it like that, but that's the truth.

because only one person ever gets the permission to speak, right? That's what tends to happen. So in classrooms, that's the norm. Often when you say to a class, right, discuss this problem or discuss this or discuss something else, the children don't quite know their roles. Like, am I allowed to do this? Have I been granted permission to do this? And I think that's the thing. I think some of these behaviours that we see in schools that I think are very powerful learning behaviours, like the establishment of these roles of

you're the learner, I'm the teacher, listen, you guys have got to do the hard work, not me. You guys got to talk to each other, not me. You've got to do the modeling, not me. You know, all of those sorts of things. That's very difficult to, you can't just put on a show. You know what I mean?

Like, they've become cultural. These become like learning behaviours that are really cultural. And I think that's the thing. I think that we're just coming back to open days and coming back into schools that any, you know,

Can't fake that. Yes.

anyone can visit them in an open day, whether you use the program or thinking about using the program. As I always think it's those things that I always look out for. It's kind of like, what's the stuff that's habit? What are the things that's habit and decide on what that looks like and sounds like and put it in the context of and how does that support children's learning? And I think it's those sorts of things that when we go into schools, and we've not asked, you know, like we've not said, well, we want to see this, this, this and this.

You like it's like you just will come into your school just as visitors and you know, we'll just be as much of the listener as we can be, you know, talk to people. But I think it's those things that seem to come across time and time again, there's certain learning behaviours. But what's quite clearly established in a lot of these places is the role of the learner is established. Like the children are very metacognitive. They know that

This is on me, I've got to discuss this. I can also talk with impunity. It's not about that asking for permission with hand up and if I get it wrong, that's it. I've had my chance and my permission is now withdrawn. It's like, I want to be able to talk to you, Robin, and I also want to be able to get it wrong. And when I get it wrong, you can challenge me and all that sort of stuff and we'll rewind a bit and go, yeah, no, that doesn't make sense, does it? What about this? Does this make sense? You know, where I think, where I think, you know, it's those types of things.

I think, too, the other, you know, on the flip side, you know, we're talking about people coming to an open day and observing, but on the flip side, the schools that like to have open days, I mean, as I said, they tend to be excellent schools, but part of it is they have these open days because they are confident in

the teacher's ability and in the students and you can see that and feel that when you're in the classroom for an open day. I think it's good for both the observer and for the school and the teachers that are leading the lesson at the time. there is value there whether you're hosting the open day or you're observing and yeah.

Totally agree.

100 % and I think that the only other thing that I'd say just alongside that is I think that one of the reasons why a lot of these schools have got such really clearly defined and really good learning behaviours is because the senior leadership and the teaching staff are learning as well. And so I think the other thing that comes of the open days is the discussion afterwards that's not that of course it's in part you definitely you're proud of your school, you're proud of your children, you want to be able to share that.

But I think the other thing that comes in is for me, and this is across the board with the schools that I've been into where those learning habits have been really well embedded and shared outside of the school or within their school community, is that discussion afterwards, they're really keen to learn as well. What did you notice? What did you see? Or what do you think? And it's not that this isn't being driven by ego.

Yes. Yes.

It's also thinking about what can we learn so our practice can be better still. And I think that that's another part of it that again is really powerful. And I also hope that when people go into these schools or you get an opportunity to do it, it's the start. And again, this is a potential to sound a bit rose-tinted glasses, but it's the start of like a connection and a relationship between professional learning communities, you know? And we've had this many times where schools have sort of said,

What can we learn? Yeah.

we were a bit skeptical, we were this or that, but then we went to visit the school and we started talking to the teachers and we started talking to the children and it's kind of like, this is seven years ago and seven years down the track, are you still in contact with that school? for sure. Yeah, we've been here and we've gone and we've done this and we're collaborating on this and you know, it's all those sorts of things and I think we need all of that support to do our job really well.